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Old 02-23-2012, 09:37 PM
moynul333 moynul333 is offline
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Default Ismu fa'il daa'in

As salamu alaikum
The weak verb ajwaf wawi, ismu fa'il is daa'iwun originally. But changed to daa'in.
We hear people call daa'in (invitor), daa'i. Why is this?
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:32 PM
benss benss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moynul333 View Post
As salamu alaikum
The weak verb ajwaf wawi, ismu fa'il is daa'iwun originally. But changed to daa'in.
We hear people call daa'in (invitor), daa'i. Why is this?
Salâmou'aleikoum wa rahmatoullâh wa barakâtouh,

that's correct too.
The spelling is the same. It's just that arabic speakers often make "waqf" when speaking: roughly speaking, it means that they don't pronounce the last letter's vowel.

Like when reciting Qur'an, saying:

الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين


instead of:
َالْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين


Or when you say:

مُحَمَّدْ


instead of:

مُحَمَّدٌ
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Last edited by benss; 02-26-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:43 PM
moynul333 moynul333 is offline
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Jazakallah khair
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:58 PM
moynul333 moynul333 is offline
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If you do waqf on daa'in should it not be daa' ?
Also if nakis verb da'aa is nakis waawi or yaa'i ?
Also I saw in the Quran 2 types of ism fa'il (Active participle)
One of them with alif lam dal alif and aain (ad-daa'i) and the
Second ism fa'il with alif lam dal alif aain and yaa (ad-daa'iya)
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:42 PM
amir2005i amir2005i is offline
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Assalamu alaikum

nakis verb da'aa is nakis waawi

You can see it in book 3, lesson 5 exercise 7
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:29 PM
benss benss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moynul333 View Post
If you do waqf on daa'in should it not be daa' ?
Also if nakis verb da'aa is nakis waawi or yaa'i ?
Also I saw in the Quran 2 types of ism fa'il (Active participle)
One of them with alif lam dal alif and aain (ad-daa'i) and the
Second ism fa'il with alif lam dal alif aain and yaa (ad-daa'iya)
Salâmou'aleikoum wa rahmatoullâh wa barakâtouh,

it is indeed a nâqis wawi as amir2005i said,


1) I guess by "ad-daa'i" you mean الدَّاعِي.
2) And also by "ad-daa'iya", الدَّاعيَ.

Like in:

The only difference is that in (1) it is marfou3 (let's say that the damma is invisible), wherease in (2) it is mansoud. Indeed, we learnt in book 2, that the ism nâqis only shows clearly its case ending when it is mansoub, otherwise (marfou3 and majrour cases) the i3râb is said to be "muqaddara" ("estimated").

  • (54:6) فَتَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ يَوْمَ يَدْعُ الدَّاعِ إِلَىٰ شَيْءٍ نُكُرٍ
    => marfou3
  • (2:186) وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ
    => majrour
  • (20:108) يَوْمَئِذٍ يَتَّبِعُونَ الدَّاعِيَ لَا عِوَجَ لَهُ
    => mansoub

Looking through these verses, I've just noticed right now that the "ya" has been dropped in the majrour and marfou3 cases. I don't know what's the explanation for that. Maybe it's specific to Quran like many exceptions i've came across in the Quran. But you should wait until confirmation from a more knowledgeable person.
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:31 PM
irf2k irf2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benss View Post
Looking through these verses, I've just noticed right now that the "ya" has been dropped in the majrour and marfou3 cases. I don't know what's the explanation for that. Maybe it's specific to Quran like many exceptions i've came across in the Quran. But you should wait until confirmation from a more knowledgeable person.
Assalamu Alaykum
In regards to dropped "ya" see Dr. Abdur Rahim postinh:
http://www.lqtoronto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=917
Wassalam
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:01 PM
benss benss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irf2k View Post
Assalamu Alaykum
In regards to dropped "ya" see Dr. Abdur Rahim postinh:
http://www.lqtoronto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=917
Wassalam
'aleikoum wa rahmatoullâh wa barakâtouh,

thank you brother irf2k.
By the way, I already know that post brother, and when I said...

Quote:
Maybe it's specific to Quran like many exceptions i've came across in the Quran
...I have preciselly in mind, among others, the dropping of ya al-mutakallim.
So, my question please is now:

In the case of nâqis the verb, the "ya" at the end is part of the verb and it is not "ya al-mutakallim", so does the rule explained in the post above applies for the dropping of "ya" in a naqis verb as well ?
Indeed, your post concerns visibly only the dropping of ya al-mutakkalim.

Thank your for your precisions.

Wa salâm.
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:59 PM
irf2k irf2k is offline
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Waalaikum Assalam

You are right that posting refers to "ya" of the speaker.
Same happens to the "lam kalima" of a naqis verb.

This from key to book 2 lesson 1:
قَاضٍ‘a judge’ for قَاضِيٌ, e.g.: أَبِي قَاضٍ‘My father is a judge.’


Wassalaam
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:06 AM
benss benss is offline
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Salâmou'aleikoum wa rahmatoullâh wa barakâtouh,

Quote:
Originally Posted by irf2k View Post
Waalaikum Assalam



This from key to book 2 lesson 1:
قَاضٍ‘a judge’ for قَاضِيٌ, e.g.: أَبِي قَاضٍ‘My father is a judge.’


I already knew that too, but here the question is different.
Of course we've learnt in detail the declension of Ism al-manqous and its forms. However,
what we have learnt so far is that when the Ism al-manqous is definite the "ya" at the end is not dropped, it is only dropped if the Ism is indefinite.
So the question is more:
why the "ya" is dropped in the âyat above while it is definite ? Got it ?

If the answer is (as you said)....

Quote:
Same happens to the "lam kalima" of a naqis verb.
...then it's ok, I take it.

But if you answer is...

Quote:
This from key to book 2 lesson 1:
قَاضٍ‘a judge’ for قَاضِيٌ, e.g.: أَبِي قَاضٍ‘My father is a judge.’
...then this doesn't reply to our issue.

I'm afraid you don't get what I meant
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