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W.Syed
03-30-2012, 07:35 AM
Salaam,

عالمٌ in plural form will go to علماءُ. The singular (aalimun) is indefinite, does this mean that the plural is also indefinite despite having a single vowel sign at the end ?

Would the plural of العالمُ (definite) be العلماءُ or still علماءُ ?

Secondly, the plural of ضعيفٌ (indefinite) is ضعافٌ, is this also indefinite ?
Is there a specific reason why this plural has a "un" at the end whilst the plural of "aalimun" had "u" at the end or is it just something you have to memorize ?

Would the plural of الضعيفُ be الضعافُ ?

In general, is it such that if the singular is indefinite then the plural will be indefinite despite not having a "tanwin" at the end and if the singular is definite then the plural will have an "al" at the beginning and a single vowel at the end and also be definite ?

Jzk

Abdullah Al-Narwej
03-30-2012, 06:29 PM
Salaam,

عالمٌ in plural form will go to علماءُ. The singular (aalimun) is indefinite, does this mean that the plural is also indefinite despite having a single vowel sign at the end ?

Would the plural of العالمُ (definite) be العلماءُ or still علماءُ ?

Secondly, the plural of ضعيفٌ (indefinite) is ضعافٌ, is this also indefinite ?
Is there a specific reason why this plural has a "un" at the end whilst the plural of "aalimun" had "u" at the end or is it just something you have to memorize ?

Would the plural of الضعيفُ be الضعافُ ?

In general, is it such that if the singular is indefinite then the plural will be indefinite despite not having a "tanwin" at the end and if the singular is definite then the plural will have an "al" at the beginning and a single vowel at the end and also be definite ?

Jzk

wa 'alaikumu alsalaamu

hello W. Syed

Here's the general rule:
- indefinite nouns have tanween, ex; kitaabun (singular) kutubun (plural)
- definite nouns have single vowelsign & al, ex; al-kitaabu, al-kutubu

With regards to علماءُ, here you have a special plural pattern. You have probably not been introduced to this yet, but it will be addressed pretty soon in the course, to make it short some words are what is called 'diptotes', which prevents them from taking tanween when indefinite. Keep progressing in the course and you will become more familiar with them in shaa Allah

azeemkhan
05-16-2012, 12:18 PM
عالمٌ in plural form will go to علماءُ. The singular (aalimun) is indefinite, does this mean that the plural is also indefinite despite having a single vowel sign at the end ?
yes, علماءُ is also indefinite

Would the plural of العالمُ (definite) be العلماءُ or still علماءُ ?it will be العلماءُ.

Is there a specific reason why this plural has a "un" at the end whilst the plural of "aalimun" had "u" at the end or is it just something you have to memorize ?because علماءُ is dip-tote, that is nouns that do not decline fully, and those nouns that decline fully they have all 3 case endings that is dun, dan, and din. the plural of ضعيفٌ is ضُيُوفٌ and yes it (ضُيُوفٌ ) is indefinite, it has tanween because it declines fully or in other words it is a trip-tote.

Would the plural of الضعيفُ be الضعافُ ? no, it will be الضُيُوفُ, there will be a single damma on faa because definite words cannot take both ال and damma. ال is the sign of definite nouns whereas tanween is the sign of indefinite nouns except in the case of proper nouns such as محمدٌ, because proper nouns are always definite.

you will learn dip-totes and trip-totes very soon insha Allah.

benss
05-18-2012, 08:35 AM
yes, علماءُ is also indefinite

...the plural of ضعيفٌ is ضُيُوفٌ and yes it (ضُيُوفٌ )...

plural of ضعيفٌ is not ضُيُوفٌ (mix up with ضَيْفٌ :) )

plural of ضعيفٌ is ضِعافٌ (or ضُعَفاء as it appears in the Qur`an)

Just last remark, when you say:

...because علماءُ is dip-tote, that is nouns that do not decline fully...

One has to keep in mind that diptotes decline fully (that is to say they are معرب), their specifities being that they decline differently.

azeemkhan
05-18-2012, 10:37 AM
oh, i really did not notice that it was ضعيفٌ, thanks for the correction.

however,
diptotes decline fully (that is to say they are معرب), their specifities being that they decline differentlybut ustadh asif has said it many times during the course of book-1 that dip-totes do not decline fully.

irf2k
05-18-2012, 12:20 PM
plural of ضعيفٌ is not ضُيُوفٌ (mix up with ضَيْفٌ :) )

plural of ضعيفٌ is ضِعافٌ (or ضُعَفاء as it appears in the Qur`an)

Just last remark, when you say:


One has to keep in mind that diptotes decline fully (that is to say they are معرب), their specifities being that they decline differently.
Brother Benss,
You are right BUT at differente levels one explains things differently.
In Arabic grammar there is no such thing as "decline fully" what it means is that they decline differently, but for someone to understand "declention" which is a concept that is foreign to the English language it is, at non-book 3 level, acceptable to classify a "mam-nooun min sarf" as "diptote" (again something that is foreign to Arabic grammar) as non-declining fully.
The finner points that you brought up are true but not proper at Book 1 level.
It does not help the leaning process if we "throw" every finner concepts of grammar when the student is taking the first steps.

This step by step leaning of Arabic grammar used by Br. Asif in his video is the reason of success of his lectures and has allowed many students to stay on course and not drop-off.

Just like when I was leaning math and being introduced to square roots I was told that there is no square root of a negative number, but you know there is.

Dr Abdur Rahim covers declentions at the start of book 3.

Dear Azeemkhan,
It is ok to (in english) call it diptote and say it does not decilne fully, later you will learn that not fully declinable means a different declention, while you have not reached book 3 and are still trying to grasp the concept of declention.

benss
05-18-2012, 01:12 PM
Brother Benss,
You are right BUT at differente levels one explains things differently.
In Arabic grammar there is no such thing as "decline fully" what it means is that they decline differently, but for someone to understand "declention" which is a concept that is foreign to the English language it is, at non-book 3 level, acceptable to classify a "mam-nooun min sarf" as "diptote" (again something that is foreign to Arabic grammar) as non-declining fully.
The finner points that you brought up are true but not proper at Book 1 level.
It does not help the leaning process if we "throw" every finner concepts of grammar when the student is taking the first steps.

This step by step leaning of Arabic grammar used by Br. Asif in his video is the reason of success of his lectures and has allowed many students to stay on course and not drop-off.

Just like when I was leaning math and being introduced to square roots I was told that there is no square root of a negative number, but you know there is.

Dr Abdur Rahim covers declentions at the start of book 3.

Dear Azeemkhan,
It is ok to (in english) call it diptote and say it does not decilne fully, later you will learn that not fully declinable means a different declention, while you have not reached book 3 and are still trying to grasp the concept of declention.

Sal‚mou'aleik‚ wa rahmatoull‚h wa barak‚ouh,

you're absolutely right brother irf2k (I was not soft at all in my post :D), I was precisely about to post-reply to brother azeemkhan and ponder my last post when I read from him:

...but ustadh asif has said it many times during the course of book-1 that dip-totes do not decline fully.

I felt embarrassed when I read brother azeemkhan's reply :o. I didn't take
into consideration the "educational aspects" you've relevantly pointed out above.
I'm definitely not as good as Ustedh Assif in transmitting knowledge :D, May Allah bless him.

Hope things are clear now brother azeemkhan.

Sal‚mou'aleikoum‚ wa rahmatoull‚h wa barak‚touh.

azeemkhan
05-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Hope things are clear now brother azeemkhan.yes, wa jazakAllaho khayran.

i understand that Madinah books are organized to introduce grammatical concepts gradually, and ustadh aasif is an excellent teacher. i had been trying to learn Arabic grammar on my own from various English and Urdu books even those that are taught at madaris but every time i happened to be stuck somewhere, because as ustadh aasif says that in those books every thing is thrown on the student from the beginning, and student feels that Arabic grammar is very difficult.

benss
05-18-2012, 02:58 PM
yes, wa jazakAllaho khayran.

i understand that Madinah books are organized to introduce grammatical concepts gradually, and ustadh aasif is an excellent teacher. i had been trying to learn Arabic grammar on my own from various English and Urdu books even those that are taught at madaris but every time i happened to be stuck somewhere, because as ustadh aasif says that in those books every thing is thrown on the student from the beginning, and student feels that Arabic grammar is very difficult.

I understand, me too I've came across several kind of "methodologies",

all claimed to teach arabic efficiently but honestly I've never came across a methodology as good, soft and efficient as Medina book.

You'll see inchaAllah, you'll rapidly acquire deep knowledge in arabic grammar
with Ustadh Assif's teaching and this will open doors in understanding your dÓn to such an extent that you wouldn't have expected.

And all is from Allah's Mercy.