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W.Syed
04-15-2012, 11:56 AM
SA

I cam across "لنا حديقة"

But I thought the "li" was used in things that you have that you cannot be separated from eg, li akhun, li yadun.... And it would be incorrect to say "aynda akhun.

So would it be more correct to say "عندنا حديقة" than the above ?

Also, if anyone could further elaborate on the difference between "li" and "aynda" I would be grateful.

JZK

Abdullah Al-Narwej
04-15-2012, 12:47 PM
SA

I cam across "لنا حديقة"

But I thought the "li" was used in things that you have that you cannot be separated from eg, li akhun, li yadun.... And it would be incorrect to say "aynda akhun.

So would it be more correct to say "عندنا حديقة" than the above ?

Also, if anyone could further elaborate on the difference between "li" and "aynda" I would be grateful.

JZK

This is explained on p. 40 in the handouts for book2/3:

The relationship is permanent and inseparable.
Even after death, the relationship remains (i.e. a brother/sister will always remain brother/sister, even after death)

eg.
lee akhun
lee bintun
etc

3inda is used for possession of things:
3indee: sayyaaratun, baytun, kitaabun, qalamun, etc

Li is also used for things when we describe that a thing has doors or wheels etc.

Syyaaratee lahaa arba3atu abwaabin (my car has 4 doors)

Abdullah Al-Narwej
04-15-2012, 12:49 PM
I agree, لنا حديقة is somewhat strange, where did you find this sentence?

W.Syed
04-16-2012, 07:53 AM
I agree, لنا حديقة is somewhat strange, where did you find this sentence?

Arabic part of Book 1, Page 84, Exercise 2, Number 8 (fourth one form the bottom of the page)

Abdullah Al-Narwej
04-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Arabic part of Book 1, Page 84, Exercise 2, Number 8 (fourth one form the bottom of the page)

Well this does seem to go against the general rule, but I suppose there might be exceptions.. Perhaps some other brother & sister can shed some light on this in shaa Allah

irf2k
04-16-2012, 05:31 PM
The full sentence is:

لنا حديقةٌ جَميلة في تلك القَرْيَةِ.
This garden which that village has is not something that it can give to some other village.

Do not be very concerned about "li" and "inda" these are generic rules. They are to be understood within the culture of the owners of the language.

Wassalam

abulweena
05-22-2012, 02:48 AM
The full sentence is:

لنا حديقةٌ جَميلة في تلك القَرْيَةِ.

What is the translation of the above jumlah? Is it :-
For us a beautiful garden in that village . ??

hassan
05-22-2012, 10:34 AM
What is the translation of the above jumlah? Is it :-
For us a beautiful garden in that village . ??
Trans.
We have a beautiful garden in that village.

benss
05-22-2012, 10:50 AM
What is the translation of the above jumlah? Is it :-
For us a beautiful garden in that village . ??

Sal‚mou'aleikoum wa rahmatoull‚h wa barak‚touh,

I would suggest:
We have a beautiful garden in that village;
A good translation has to fit the context, but we're dealing here with only single sentence (no dialogue or whatsoever).

hassan
05-22-2012, 11:17 AM
What is the translation of the above jumlah? Is it :-
For us a beautiful garden in that village . ??

assalamu alaikum.

Trans
For us a beautiful garden in that village
Belongs to us a beautiful garden in that village
We have a beautiful garden in that village

All the translations are conveying the same idea. Your translation is also fine. Its fine because you understood the sentence directly in arabic alhamdulillaah. Try to understand the sentence directly in arabic. But if you want to translate it, then always select the best translation.

abulweena
05-22-2012, 05:24 PM
شكرا جزيلا . بارك الله فيكم

abulweena
05-23-2012, 04:09 AM
Question, is the following jumlah acceptable ? What I want to say is "The pen belongs to the teacher".


القلم للمدرس

hassan
05-23-2012, 07:40 AM
Question, is the following jumlah acceptable ? What I want to say is "The pen belongs to the teacher".


القلم للمدرس


assalamu alaikum.

Yes brother. Lesson 8 is full of these examples. Dr Abdurrahim also put an exercise for harf jarr "li" in the lesson. You can practice that.

al-qalam -> mubtada
lil-mudarris -> jar majroor shibhu l-jumla khabar

benss
05-23-2012, 11:48 AM
As for :

This is explained on p. 40 in the handouts for book2/3:

The relationship is permanent and inseparable.
Even after death, the relationship remains (i.e. a brother/sister will always remain brother/sister, even after death)

eg.
lee akhun
lee bintun
etc

3inda is used for possession of things:
3indee: sayyaaratun, baytun, kitaabun, qalamun, etc

Li is also used for things when we describe that a thing has doors or wheels etc.

Syyaaratee lahaa arba3atu abwaabin (my car has 4 doors)

Personally, I didn't checked the handouts you've refered to brother Abdullah Al-Narwej, but I will inchaAllah.

Besides, what I know so far about the difference between "لي " and "عندي" is that:

one uses the first (لي ) when referring to someone or something that the person owns (whether or not the possession is permanent or not)

while the second (عندي) is used when one wants to describe something he has with him, in his possession, but which does not necessarly belong to him.


For instance, if I say:

لِزيدٍ كرةٌ, this would mean that "Zayd owns a ball", but if I say;
عندَ زيدٍ كرةٌ, this would mean "Zayd has a ball" in the sense "A ball exists/is available from Zayd".


The difference is subtle but noteworthy: as we know from the arabs, the harf jarr ل conveys the meaning of ownership (التمليك).


As for:


....
Do not be very concerned about "li" and "inda" these are generic rules. They are to be understood within the culture of the owners of the language.

Wassalam

That's absolutely true, nowdays arabs (in general) are not as eloquent as their ancestors, and like for many issues in arabic, people often use both without making a clear distinction: this matter depends on the context and the culture of the speaker.

I'm refering here, as Ustadh Assif relevantly pointed out in his teaching of Book 2 (I'll give you later inchaAllah the precise moment on the tape), to the polutted arabic :D (:().

And Allah knows the best.

Sal‚mou'aleikoum wa rahmatoull‚h wa bar‚touh.